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  1. #1
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Movement in the No End in Sight rules

    Answering a question from this thread: http://www.wargamingdropzone.com/sho...=5350#post5350

    madman is asking about the No End in Sight rules from Nordic Weasel.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Looking to see how this plays out and how to handle units moving in the open in LOS of the enemy. That was my issue. There is no provision for moving as above except by rushing. If the distance is too much (more than 6") you HAVE to rush but always end up pinned. So unless each leader takes a few guys who he can still unpin, well it looks bad.
    I think you're doing it right. You and I both like how realistic these rules are. Don't you think this aligns with reality? Why would you ever move more than 6" in sight of an enemy and not expect to get pinned? In many other rule sets, your guys would just get killed if you made a move like that. Am I misunderstanding your issue?

  2. #2
    Member madman's Avatar
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    I like realism but there still needs to be play-ability. I found without smoke grenades the potential to be tied down was pretty great. I think we both need to do some more plays to see how it works in reality. I saw your set up and just wonder if you can get enough clear routes.

    With just two defenders it should be easier. I didn't see if you were going for moving off board or taking the power house. I seem to remember the power house was the target so let's see how it plays.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    I saw your set up and just wonder if you can get enough clear routes.
    I don't understand. Why are clear routes important?

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    With just two defenders it should be easier. I didn't see if you were going for moving off board or taking the power house. I seem to remember the power house was the target so let's see how it plays.
    I really don't understand this paragraph. If you look at my scenario, the power station is defended by one-and-a-half squads inside and a squad of police as reinforcements. They have to keep the rebel squads out and hold the building. Does that help?

  4. #4
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    I don't understand. Why are clear routes important?
    Maybe I am not clear on what I mean by clear routes. In NEiS troopers who move in LOS of the enemy can be subject to attacks which have a good chance of pinning them in place and a lesser chance of causing casualties each turn. By clear routes I mean routes your forces can travel towards your objectives which are out of the LOS of the enemy. When the enemy has fewer troops they cannot, usually, cover as many of these routes. The longer the routes the much more likely your troops will be pinned. Since the only way in game terms to advance in LOS is by rushes from covered positions to other covered positions (no LOS) and is predicated on rushes of less than 6" so long avenues of travel become perilous.

    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    I really don't understand this paragraph. If you look at my scenario, the power station is defended by one-and-a-half squads inside and a squad of police as reinforcements. They have to keep the rebel squads out and hold the building. Does that help?
    Two troopers cannot cover as many of these routes as say four. Sorry I only saw you had the two surviving troopers from your first (or test?) scenario, not all the forces the defense has now. I don't have your initial positions nor actual distances on the game board but assume your routes will exceed 6" which will make being able to advance without getting pinned difficult. This was my undoing in the game I played so now I am being anal fixated on it! The things which will allow for the shorter rushes to work is terrain, again I don't know your layout etc., and smoke.

    I have to see how your scenario plays out.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    By clear routes I mean routes your forces can travel towards your objectives which are out of the LOS of the enemy.
    Oh, interesting. I would call that an area of built-up terrain. I would think a clear route would be relatively free of terrain, which is why I didn't understand why you'd want that.

    My layout actually has a lot of terrain. Did you see all those cars in the center of the table, between all those buildings? There are plenty of spots to duck behind, as well as doors to duck into (only the power station doors are locked). Is that what you mean by a "clear route"? Look again:

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    Plus, the attackers will be supported by an HMG, as well as a SAW and RPG. So the defenders will have to keep their heads down a little bit, too.

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    Member madman's Avatar
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    OK time for a thoughtful (I hope) reply. I assume the "top" edge of the board extends all the way to what looks like the edge of the table and the area covered by the brown paper there is open terrain.

    If your forces start from the edge shown as the top in the above picture they have to move, what 10", to reach the power house. Many turns in LOS of anyone occupying the power house. Since you mention the power house was going to be your main set up point any forces entering from the "top" would be under fire in the open for a large part of movement. This is not what I call a clear route.

    If your forces come from the right of the board, and assuming no enemy forces in the building which to me looks like some kind of grain elevator, or the shack or house directly below then forces entering from the right of the "elevator" can use it to shield themselves both visually and for fire from the power house. This is what I call a clear route.

    I hope that makes my statement clear.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Oh, now I understand. All the attackers will be arriving in vehicles from the 4-lane road. That's written into the scenario. It's all in the details!

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