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  1. #41
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    IN NEiS close combat can be deadly. Probably more so than ranged fire as you stated. Your rules have no kills in CC or lower chance?
    I worked that into the combat design by letting the combat table handle it. You simply get to modify the die roll if your attacker is within 6" of its target.

    I also finally decided to have targets removed from play if they sustain 10+ friction points. Which means the armored car that pulled up in front of a platoon of soldiers would've immediately been removed from play due to opportunity fire. Players will have to get a little more creative than I was to avoid such a fate.

    Regarding yesterday's attack on the car at the checkpoint...

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    I am afraid I have to disagree. I see this as an either or situation. If this is the procedure you want followed then make it a rule. Unless in half the games you want it one way and in the other half you want it the other way nail it down. Is there a reason to make it one way or the other in your mind? It is only a line or two.
    That's a fair criticism. I think my vehicle rules will work ok for nearly every situation, and of course I wanted to keep it simple and fit it all on one page. The checkpoint scenario is a very unusual situation because it forces a player to move one unarmored vehicle within 1" of multiple armed enemies, knowing opportunity fire is going to happen first thing. That's simply not going to happen in most scenarios. So I think special scenario rules should be expected in such a case. And that would just read something like, "Attacks may not be conducted against the car."

  2. #42
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    I also finally decided to have targets removed from play if they sustain 10+ friction points. Which means the armored car that pulled up in front of a platoon of soldiers would've immediately been removed from play due to opportunity fire. Players will have to get a little more creative than I was to avoid such a fate.
    That sounds a lot like Hind & Seek. Units don't die they get "moralled" into non existence. Units don't take damage per se but gain morale points (as opposed to every other system where you lose morale) until they accumulate 7 points (one more than can be displayed by a die six beside the unit) when they "cease to function as a unit" and are removed from play. Interesting concept but most of my opponents in H&S found units which could last 3 to 6 game turns with some functionality (they were usually suppressed as well which reduced or eliminates the two actions per turn a unit may perform) was too slow for their liking. My only concerns were, units could not reduce morale through typical rally actions, and morale itself had no effect on the unit's combat effectiveness. A unit with six morale points was as powerful as one with none and evaporated as soon as it accumulated one more as opposed to being reduced at some point.

    At 10 points keep in mind how to track that on the game board. You could place a D10 beside the figure. I understand there are smaller D10s available which may be less intrusive on the game table.

  3. #43
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Hmm, that does sound like my rules! Except mine seem to be an improvement on this concept, because friction does impact not only combat effectiveness but also movement. And units can rally from the disrupted state.

    I first got the idea of tracking friction from SPI's Central Front series of Cold War board games, from the 1980s.

  4. #44
    Member madman's Avatar
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    I am totally distracted by this skirmish 15mm gaming right now but my long term goal is for 6mm. So I may just steal some of your ideas as at the present time H&S is a good starting point for my ideas.

  5. #45
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Cool, feel free!

  6. #46
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Got Quik Frik and assuming it is taking over for Aw Frik here are my thoughts. Most are anal designer centric ones but make for a cleaner set of rules I think.

    Turn Sequence
    2. Activation rolls are for 2nd and 3rd units?
    3. 2nd and 3rd units activate (if passed their rolls) now or after opposing player's 1st unit?
    4. & 5. As above.
    As written the rules are I GO YOU GO. Is that the intent?


    Initiative Roll
    Why not say here, and elsewhere. A player with elite units roll two dice taking the higher roll.?

    Activation Rolls
    If a player's 2nd unit does not activate does this in any way affect the 3rd unit's attempts?

    Combat
    The following table is the above table.
    Is a unit disrupted if it takes 5 FPs in a single turn or when it reaches a total of 5 FPs?
    Maybe say; Opportunity fire is only done after movement at units in LOS.

    I hope this helps. They look pretty good for a single page.

  7. #47
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Got Quik Frik and assuming it is taking over for Aw Frik here are my thoughts. Most are anal designer centric ones but make for a cleaner set of rules I think.
    Wow, thanks for buying them! I didn't expect that since you said earlier that they're not for you.

    Of course they're locked down now, but I'm interested in your thoughts and happy to help however I can.

    Yes, QUIK FRIK is the official rule set now. No more Aw Frik.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Turn Sequence
    2. Activation rolls are for 2nd and 3rd units?
    Right. One unit can always activate automatically. Anything after that needs a die roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    3. 2nd and 3rd units activate (if passed their rolls) now or after opposing player's 1st unit?
    Now. Each player gets to try to activate three units in a row. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    4. & 5. As above.
    As written the rules are I GO YOU GO. Is that the intent?
    Yes, though no more than three units each side can activate per turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Initiative Roll
    Why not say here, and elsewhere. A player with elite units roll two dice taking the higher roll.?
    Is this the same thing I wrote, with slightly altered wording? I may be confused by your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Activation Rolls
    If a player's 2nd unit does not activate does this in any way affect the 3rd unit's attempts?
    Yes. There won't be a third activation if there is no second activation. I assumed this would be clear. Maybe I assumed wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Combat
    The following table is the above table.
    Dang it. I was trying to get things situated just right, and I failed to notice the table got above that line of text before I published it. How embarrassing. I might replace the file on WargameVault.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Is a unit disrupted if it takes 5 FPs in a single turn or when it reaches a total of 5 FPs?
    Step 6 in the turn sequence includes removing all FPs at the end of the turn, so friction points don't accumulate like they did in Aw Frik (that was the whole point of Quik Frik).

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Maybe say; Opportunity fire is only done after movement at units in LOS.
    I feel like my wording is clearer, to be honest. Thanks for the suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    I hope this helps. They look pretty good for a single page.
    Thanks! It definitely helped, because I missed the "printing" error around the table.

    Thanks again for your interest and your helpful suggestions!

  8. #48
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Not my cup of tea but I am always willing to help out.

    My questions were to indicate where I think you should look at rewording the rules to make it clearer. Wargame Vault allows no charge updates for people who have bought a set of rules so I suggest tweaking them and offering a V 1.01 as a freebie. No one is going to think any less of you. BTW I really like your corporate name!


    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    Wow, thanks for buying them! I didn't expect that since you said earlier that they're not for you.
    Of course they're locked down now, but I'm interested in your thoughts and happy to help however I can.

    Yes, QUIK FRIK is the official rule set now. No more Aw Frik.

    Right. One unit can always activate automatically. Anything after that needs a die roll.
    Yes. There won't be a third activation if there is no second activation. I assumed this would be clear. Maybe I assumed wrong.
    So say that. Also you could state if the 2nd unit fails it's roll no more activation attempts that turn and a maximum of three units can activate per side per turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    Is this the same thing I wrote, with slightly altered wording? I may be confused by your question.
    Powtatow vs Pahtaytow. I like how I said it but it's your rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    Dang it. I was trying to get things situated just right, and I failed to notice the table got above that line of text before I published it. How embarrassing. I might replace the file on WargameVault.
    That is why it is a good idea to get a couple other people to read the rules, especially if they are not gamers they pick up on these mistakes. No worry as I said above.

    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    Step 6 in the turn sequence includes removing all FPs at the end of the turn, so friction points don't accumulate like they did in Aw Frik (that was the whole point of Quik Frik).
    I missed that. That is why it is always good to read everything twice.

    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    I feel like my wording is clearer, to be honest. Thanks for the suggestion.

    Thanks! It definitely helped, because I missed the "printing" error around the table.

    Thanks again for your interest and your helpful suggestions!
    Your wording says the same thing. As I said this is a personal touch thing.

    Good luck.

    Stephen

  9. #49
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Regarding automatic activation of the first unit...

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    So say that.
    Maybe you missed steps 2 and 4 in the turn sequence? "Activation of initiating player's 1st unit and activation rolls" and "Activation of opposing player's 1st unit and activation rolls." Seems clear to me. It's not repeated in the "Activation rolls" section because activation rolls aren't required for the first units. But that section does say, "After a player's 1st unit carries out its actions..." So it's all there.

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Also you could state if the 2nd unit fails it's roll no more activation attempts that turn and a maximum of three units can activate per side per turn.
    The rules say, "On a modified roll of 4+, a 3rd and final unit may activate." Final means final.

    Like I said, I really didn't think this could be misunderstood. If you fail to activate a second unit, how could you activate a third? If you did, it wouldn't be third. It would be second.

    But even if players do misunderstand and do it wrong, it won't make any difference. The game won't break down because of that.

  10. #50
    Member madman's Avatar
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    I used to game with the rules lawyer of all rules lawyers. I try to make any rules I write bullet proof, and leak proof if the bullets get through. That is where I am coming from, trying to point out potential issues and help with suggested wording. That is all.

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