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  1. #11
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Today's discussion I have started has my mind buzzing along (that is not burning rubber you smell). I play a 6mm game of Soviet Afghan War called Hind & Seek. It has some similarities with NEiS. One of it's mechanisms is every unit has two actions per turn unless it has been suppressed in which case it may drop to one action or if under sufficient duress none (mostly if poorer troops which have come under repeated attacks and are nearing the breaking point).

    I wonder about giving troops two actions per turn. Actions being move, fire or some of the other actions like looking after wounded, searching,etc.. So troops may have the ability to move twice as opposed to fire and move or move and fire. Or they could fire twice. Say interrupts could happen but not before a unit has performed its first action. Also stress would reduce the number of actions available. There are a lot of interrelated rules to work out but what about this?

  2. #12
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Could you put into NEiS form any idea(s) for changes to H2H you feel would work?
    I just looked over the melee rules from Two Hour Wargames' Chain Reaction 2018. What I like about it is that melee continues until only one side is left standing. I don't like the retreating that happens with NEiS that leads to more attacking and retreating in later phases. Chain Reaction handles it more realistically. You keep rolling the dice until the fight is over.

  3. #13
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    I wonder about giving troops two actions per turn.
    Do you mean two actions per phase? They already tend to get several actions per turn. And it's complicated enough already that I wouldn't really want the additional complication you're suggesting. But you might like it.

  4. #14
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    I just looked over the melee rules from Two Hour Wargames' Chain Reaction 2018. What I like about it is that melee continues until only one side is left standing. I don't like the retreating that happens with NEiS that leads to more attacking and retreating in later phases. Chain Reaction handles it more realistically. You keep rolling the dice until the fight is over.
    I don't have those. Would you like to suggest how to modify NEiS to what you are thinking? How about as you suggest but with a limit of say 3 to 6 rounds of H2H. If no victor then some accommodation?

  5. #15
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    My suggestion is to keep rolling until the fight is over. Instead of retreating, a losing but surviving figure could be weakened, resulting in a negative roll modifier. I think that's similar to how Chain Reaction handles it.

  6. #16
    Member madman's Avatar
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    I will get into game mechanisms in a few days. What about limiting the number of "rounds"?

  7. #17
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    Do you mean two actions per phase? They already tend to get several actions per turn. And it's complicated enough already that I wouldn't really want the additional complication you're suggesting. But you might like it.
    Yes I meant per phase. Typing fingers get ahead of thinking head. I was just thinking of a mechanism to cover fire and movement in a single phase as two separate actions. Yes it complicates things, just throwing it out there.

  8. #18
    Super Moderator josta59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    I will get into game mechanisms in a few days. What about limiting the number of "rounds"?
    Like I said, I'd feel unsatisfied with any result other than a finished fight. I wouldn't see any point to not finishing it.

  9. #19
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josta59 View Post
    Like I said, I'd feel unsatisfied with any result other than a finished fight. I wouldn't see any point to not finishing it.
    OK. Sounds good.

  10. #20
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Played a couple games of NEiS yesterday. Or rather we gave up around one turn in twice. Lots of holes in the rules as written and many ideas either not finished, not addressed or left dangling as the rules are written. When pushed to come up with potential solutions my opponent was uncomfortable completing someone else's game. From two points of view. Mostly he didn't feel it was his responsibility to complete or fix someone else's work which was only half done. I agree on this point. His second was is there something better (more finished, etc.) out there.

    That is why I started this thread and work. After seeing Scott's games using NEiS I was pumped on the system. Many of the concepts matched what I was looking for in a set of rules or the ideas were close enough. Until yesterday I only played one game with my son and I probably glossed over, assumed or answered the issues found for ourselves without reference to the rule book. Not so yesterday. Intending on running a game with as strict an adherence to the rules as written we constantly referred to the book (intentionally as any new experience requires checking on yourself until the game becomes second nature) but found them to be so lacking it became hopeless and we stopped the second game earlier than necessary.

    So soul searching time again, much like Scott has done. In his case he has gone for a much simpler set of rules and decided to make them himself and I want all the power to him and will attempt to aid him as I can. For myself I am looking for a much deeper, read more rules, approach. My opponent and myself discussed this for some time yesterday as he has a good critical eye for rules. I found that out when researching his objections to NEiS and saw how they were true and mostly matched my results. In the past we played Force on Force and found it satisfying but very poorly laid out. I also acquired their earlier effort Ambush Alley and am going over it now.

    So what I am looking for is a rules system which can cover the period from say between the wars (Spanish Civil War) up to ultra modern and possibly beyond. Primarily some banana republic (Bongolesia or Junta) and or more modern and asymmetric conflict (such as the Soviet Afghan war to present day Afghanistan or Chechnya). Skirmish is new to me (since getting back into the hobby a couple years back now) but I am pumped by it. Back in the day Striker miniatures rules for Traveller were of great interest and would have covered the scale and to a large extent could handle the period(s) I am looking at.

    I have played Chain of Command which is pretty close but I find (now having been exposed to other games) the numbers of dice used in combat rolls to be excessive. I like CoC's patrol phase greatly and like not having total control over my forces as their command rolls, NEiS's need for activation rolls (although we found them a lot easier to make than I thought they would be) and other rules limits on how much control you have very satisfying. Bolt Action and Flames of War need not apply!

    Any feedback or thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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